Yesterday, I encountered two articles regarding teachers having sexual relations with their students. In both cases, the teachers have been arrested and charged with crimes related to statutory rape and abuse of their positions as teachers. The commentary following the two articles caught my attention. The comments (mostly from men) in regard to an English teacher who moonlights as a NFL cheerleader ( http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/29/bengals-cheerleader-arrested-accused-of-sex-with-high-school-student/ ) virtually all expressed envy of the student, commented on how “hot” the teacher is, and ranted about how it is inappropriate to punish the teacher for providing a life long experience to the young man. Many had gone to the Ben-Gals web site to see the teacher and commented on how they wished that their teachers had been so hot and wondering if she would be willing to tutor in English ( http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/31/10950050-teacher-arrested-after-sex-with-students-for-higher-grades#comments ). The comments (also including many from men) in regard to the man who had had sex with his female students in exchange for better grades were pretty consistent in condemning the teacher. Several suggested the teacher be castrated, at least two threatened to kill him, and numerous included hope that he will be imprisoned where he will be raped and beaten. A couple indicated suspicion that the girls may have seduced the teacher but, in any event were unlikely to have been innocent since “most” girls have had sex with their boyfriends by age 16 (no data cited to support this, simply the statement as “truth”).
I am wondering how we can expect our teenagers to have any concept about morality in regards to sexual relations when a significant proportion of adults in their lives apparently believe that minor aged boys are to be congratulated and praised for “nailing” a willing female but males having sex with minor girls should be tortured and imprisoned. I am not a prude but I do believe that adults who seduce children whether male or female are committing a form of rape (coerced sex). I frankly cannot conceive how one can consider that it is fine for adult women to seduce young boys but terrible for adult men to seduce young girls. Change your opinion on one or the other of those opinions. Clearly, we cannot make significant inroads into this type thinking but I felt a need to rant a little bit.
I frankly cannot conceive how one can consider that it is fine for adult women to seduce young boys but terrible for adult men to seduce young girls.
Because young girls can get pregnant and young boys can’t?
However, it takes both a sperm and an ovum to create an embryo. It does seem that sex and procreation are inextricably intertwined yet very different processes.
The code of the schoolyard is alive and well.
1. Guys who sleep around are studs and to be admired.
2. Girls who sleep around are sluts and to be scorned.
3. There are three classes of people:
a. bullies.
b. their toadies.
c. the bullied.
4. If you are c, don’t squeal it only makes it worse.
5. Don’t be a snitch. Ever.
As a teacher and a woman, as well as someone who thinks a lot about sex, I have a few views to shed on this.
One is that girls in high school have sex more than we can imagine, even more now than in the past. I was certainly having sex at 15 or 16. Girls like teachers. They tend to fall for the intellect and good looks of the younger teachers. If the girl is aware of what she’s doing, has had sex before and so forth I don’t see why the man should be tortured and jailed. As long as the teacher didn’t lure her in and sexually abuse her I don’t see why it should be punished so severely. I think it is unethical and very unprofessional to get involved with a student but I don’t see it as a crime at 16.
Secondly many a student has attempted to seduce me in my teaching career. I have been “seduced” by students between the ages of 14 (jr high) right up to 18/19 yr olds as well as adult students I teach in the evenings. I have never gotten involved with a student, adult or otherwise, despite the often strong urge to but I can see how it would be very easy to get involved especially if there is one on one tutoring going on.
In both cases I see it as a relatively natural thing. Boys of that age are sexually curious and active and if they want to “lay” a teacher and manage to convince her why should it be looked down upon? I admit that the praise of such actions isn’t exactly a good thing, but it’s the way our society works.
Girls like to seduce and flirt possibly more than guys so if they are aware (which they aren’t always) of what they are doing and their goal is to have sex with a teacher then it’s the teacher’s decision, they are adults and should be able to distinguish good and bad behavior.
Each situation will obviously be different. It’s a matter of judging who was the weaker of the people involved (if any) and deciding whether there was abuse or lack of consent.
Ultimately I agree with your statement. People need to reevaluate the way they judge and view this behavior. Men and women should be judged as equals when possible and this is possibly one of the few cases (in my opinion) where it’s possible to do so and where it is rarely done.
Given that sexual drive increases rapidly in one’s teen years and continues high through at least the 20s, it should not be a surprise nor a reason for condemnation that youths participate in sex. However, there seems to be room for some “rules” on who to have sex with and how that sex is to be undertaken.
For a person in position of authority to have sex with a subordinate involves too much possibility for coercion to be allowed. The person in authority needs to be the one stopping such relations (much as you appear to have done).
Force is not allowable. A corollary is that the word no is not relative and always means no. The only possible exclusion might involve those engaging in mutually agreed upon domination/subjugation. Even then, there must be a code meaning no.
We cannot judge or evaluate the meaning of sexual conduct based upon the sex of the individual being judged. Acceptable conduct is acceptable and unacceptable is unacceptable whatever the sex, sexual choice, race, religion, etc of the person.
One last thing.
The two articles you posted are very different. One is obviously a sexual offender (the male teacher) asking his students (5 of them) for sexual favors in return for good grades, the equivalent of bribery. The other simply seduced her student. There is obviously a difference in these two cases that needs to be taken into consideration.
I agree that the two are not the same. I had some difficulty finding two cases that were closer. However, in both cases, a person in authority “seduced” person(s) under their management. However, my concern really related more to the response of the comments than to the seducer. Apparently, a boy seduced by his female teacher is lucky almost beyond belief and the teacher should be complimented whereas a girl seduced by a male teacher has been permanently damaged and the teacher should be castrated, tortured and imprisoned with sexual thugs who will rape and otherwise abuse him.
As to discipline of the teachers, I would opt for dismissal from teaching for both. They cannot be trusted to not continue to engage with sex with their students and I do not believe that as acceptable (any more than I accept a president having sex with an intern). I do not see any reason for jail, fines, or any other punishment.
I agree entirely with you on both your responses. We are definitely on the same wavelength and cultural side of things.
The only thing I’d point out is the comments on the male teacher story were possibly more related to the fact that he was committing the same “crime” with more than one girl, and the girls were not happy to be involved in the story.
the public response *might* have been different had the girl(s) been involved consentingly with a sexy gym teacher.
On the other hand, the other article does not say whether the boy was happy to be involved with the English teacher. Although from the looks of it, it might have started as an online video chat thing. At least that’s the impression I got. In which case, unfortunately the lines are a bit blurry as to what’s right and what’s wrong for a lot of people, quite probably including myself. I have not engaged in any online behavior with students but I have engaged in online play with young men around the age of 18 or so. It’s always hard to tell what age they are since often they will lie to get a glimpse of nudity. When in doubt I close the call, but 18 is always borderline.
In the end porn on line is so readily available it’s easy to debate whether there is any difference between live online play and just watching pornography.